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Old 08-07-2009, 10:26 PM
JimR JimR is offline
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Default My latest boat

Here is my latest toy that I picked up last fall for cheap money. She a 1986 Formula 242 SF powered by a 260HP Mercruiser (Chevy 350). I have spent quite a bit of time recently working on her. I think I have all the bugs out of her now. I finally got her into the water for some trial runs over the last two weeks. She runs flat out at 34 mph WOT, handles like a dream with the 24 degree hull design and should be one hell of a fishing boat once she is all rigged up. I have pulled the outdrive to replace the shift cable, 3 bellows, tilt and trim switches and the water pump. I converted the motor to a fresh water cooling system with antifreeze and will be getting an overflow tank shortly. I've installed seven new Faria dash gauges and rewired the whole dash. I still need to replace the original clock. The boat has a new marine am/fm/cd/weatherband 240 watt stereo installed in the cuddy cabin with a remote control wired to my side of the boat and a new ship to shore radio. My Garmin GPS/Fishfinder has been installed so I can find my way back and hopefully find lots of fish. I've repaired the live well/wash down pump. The seats still need to be redone. My new top mounted control lever will be in this coming week. The old one has just a little bit too much slop for me. I polished up the sides of the hull this past week and put two new Formula decals on her. The bottom paint is going to be removed and a nice coat of some type of smooth paint will be sprayed on. Lastly if this boat works out for us. I will be putting on a folding radar arch and radar. I did purchase a newer 6000 pound Continental trailer for her to ride on. The bearings have all been replace, new fenders, springs, u bolts and the drum brakes have been swapped out for disc brakes. A new master cylinder and brake lines were installed and LED lighting in the back along with five new tires and aluminum wheels. .
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Last edited by JimR; 08-07-2009 at 10:38 PM..
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Old 08-10-2009, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: My latest boat

Cool!



For safety's sake, install, and always wear, a kill switch and lanyard!
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Fred
Warming the globe, 24 cylinders at a time.
1988 US1 Cougar 46', Kevlar, 3 750hp 572s
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/waybomb/
1969 Glaspar Avalon
1964 17' Barron flatbottom
I'd rather be burning fuel at an alarming rate in Plain Vanilla!
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:56 AM
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Default Re: My latest boat

NOW THAT IS A BOAT WHAT DO YOU USE IT FOR FISHING CRABING OR BOTH.
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Old 03-04-2010, 12:12 PM
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Default Re: My latest boat

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Originally Posted by mcgill View Post
NOW THAT IS A BOAT WHAT DO YOU USE IT FOR FISHING CRABING OR BOTH.

She will be used mainly for fishing for Blues, Stripers and small Tuna. I did have a few setbacks with her last summer. We took her out for a day of fishing in July. About 35 miles out she sounded like she had a collapsed lifter. I idled her down and there was a tapping noise. Eventually it went away. I noticed that the motor was not running as smooth as before. So I took her back in at a slower pace. I did a compression test on the motor when I got home. I had two adjoining cylinders with low compression. I figured the motor blew a head gasket. It was worse than that. I had two pistons that lost the top ring land. The tapping noise was the pieces flattening out against the cylinder head and piston. The head gasket was also blown out between the two cylinders. I pulled the motor out and built up a new motor using a newer block, 10.4 to 1 flat top pistons, 1.6 to 1 roller rockers, roller cam, new bearings, rings, thin steel head gaskets, Vortec heads, etc. This motor spun a bearing after 5 hours of running on the local lake. The bearings were all checked for clearance and were right on the money. I have that motor out and on an engine stand at this time. Hopefully next month I'll be able to tear it down to find out what happened to it. Either way I will have another motor in it soon so that I do not miss out on another fishing season.
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Old 03-04-2010, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: My latest boat

Do NOT build a marine engine to car engine specs!

Car engines do not ever see the loads a boat engine gets.

I would also strongly suggest install a knock sensor with alarm or gage, and better yet would be a knock sensor that alarms but also retards timing.

Gas today sucks. 10:1 on a marine engine requires 93 Octane at least.


If you are not running a roller cam, then I strongly suggest running diesel engine oils, such as Rotella T or Delo400, or DELVAC. If you are running a flat solid lifter and have anything above 300 psi valve springs, then I would also suggest adding 8 oz General Motors EOS or any cam company's break in lube so you get an excess amount of ZDDP. NO, and I repeat, NO, on road or race oil hase enough ZDDP in it these days for flat solid lifters. And now they are reducing ZDDP in diesel engine oils too.
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Thanks,
Fred
Warming the globe, 24 cylinders at a time.
1988 US1 Cougar 46', Kevlar, 3 750hp 572s
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/waybomb/
1969 Glaspar Avalon
1964 17' Barron flatbottom
I'd rather be burning fuel at an alarming rate in Plain Vanilla!
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Old 03-04-2010, 02:12 PM
JimR JimR is offline
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Default Re: My latest boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybomb View Post
Do NOT build a marine engine to car engine specs!

Car engines do not ever see the loads a boat engine gets.

I would also strongly suggest install a knock sensor with alarm or gage, and better yet would be a knock sensor that alarms but also retards timing.

Gas today sucks. 10:1 on a marine engine requires 93 Octane at least.


If you are not running a roller cam, then I strongly suggest running diesel engine oils, such as Rotella T or Delo400, or DELVAC. If you are running a flat solid lifter and have anything above 300 psi valve springs, then I would also suggest adding 8 oz General Motors EOS or any cam company's break in lube so you get an excess amount of ZDDP. NO, and I repeat, NO, on road or race oil hase enough ZDDP in it these days for flat solid lifters. And now they are reducing ZDDP in diesel engine oils too.
The motor was built to marine specs except for the pistons. The rods were changed out for a set of heavier duty Chevy X rods. The block is a four bolt main instead of a two bolt main. The cam is a marine roller. Vortec heads were used for better breathing instead of the restricted stock heads. The motor has a closed loop cooling system with antifreeze in it. I plan on using a better grade of rod bearings on the next rebuild. I think I may have spun the bearing one day when the motor flooded when I tried to start it up. I was running it with a hose hooked up for an hour a day at 2000 - 2500 rpm's to break it in. I had the throttle open a bit too much when it did start up. The motor fired up and hit 3500 rpm's immediately on start up. I know from prior experience that this can wipe out a bearing in less than a second. I'll be dropping the pan shortly to see which one launched. I know it is a rod bearing. I could hear that distinct sound at low rpm's. It is a shame too because the motor ran so sweet. The timing is set at 26 degrees. I am running 93 octane in the boat. That was a very costly fill up too at 132 gallons.
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Old 03-04-2010, 02:22 PM
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Default Re: My latest boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimR View Post
I am running 93 octane in the boat. That was a very costly fill up too at 132 gallons.
You lucky dog. Try a 250 gallon fill up, every day you use it...........

Did you prelube the engine by driving the oil pump until you read pressure on the gage? If you wiped a bearing in 5 hours, I doubt it was the type of bearing, or even brand for that matter. A 3500 rpm start should not be a problem.

For a few hundred bucks, you can break the thing in on a dyno. Just a thought.
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Thanks,
Fred
Warming the globe, 24 cylinders at a time.
1988 US1 Cougar 46', Kevlar, 3 750hp 572s
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/waybomb/
1969 Glaspar Avalon
1964 17' Barron flatbottom
I'd rather be burning fuel at an alarming rate in Plain Vanilla!
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Old 03-04-2010, 05:13 PM
JimR JimR is offline
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Default Re: My latest boat

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Originally Posted by waybomb View Post
You lucky dog. Try a 250 gallon fill up, every day you use it...........

Did you prelube the engine by driving the oil pump until you read pressure on the gage? If you wiped a bearing in 5 hours, I doubt it was the type of bearing, or even brand for that matter. A 3500 rpm start should not be a problem.

For a few hundred bucks, you can break the thing in on a dyno. Just a thought.

Yeah but what your running for motors in that boat. One of them would drive my boat just fine.

I did prelube the motor using a long screwdriver and a drill. What a pain in the butt that was. I now have a used distributor that I am going to take the teeth off the lower gear for lubing the next motor before I fire it up. The bearings were oiled up after being installed in their proper place before installing the caps. I'm wondering if one of the rods was bent. I had this happen to me once before on a 375hp 396 in my 66 Chevelle years ago. I had one rod that was slightly bent by the shop that installed the new pistons for me. They were supposed to have checked the rods also. It seems that they didn't even though I was charged for it. They did however check the rod with the spun bearing and told me the rod needed to be straightened. I told them "you already did that". So much for getting quality work when you need it. I don't know of anyone with a dyno for testing motors out of vehicles. That does make sense and I could find out just what my motor has for horsepower. I wonder if they would have the hookups for a marine ignition system? My other option is to just buy another rebuilt motor with a guarnty and throw it in. How about you send me one of your 572's. You don't need three of them in your boat. Plus you would gain a 33% fuel reduction.
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Old 03-04-2010, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: My latest boat

You gotta be right on with any marine engine making horsepower. What kind of bearing clearance you running? Here's what you should be at: Rod bearings = 0.0025-0.003 Mains = 0.0027-0.0035 end play = 0.004-0.009 Rod side play = 0.020-0.025 Wrist Pin = 0.001 Quench, including gasket - 0.040-0.060 Depending on pistons, for a marine engine, you should be at about 0.0015 for every inch of bore, measured at the skirt. I run only JE psitons, and JE has a very specific procedure for checking clearance, and has specific instructions for marine engines. Typically, a car engine has a bout 0.001 for every inch of bore. All this info is available on their website. Thin head gaskets - do you have the proper quench volume? What ignition do you have? Thunderbolt IV? For dyno run, just have all that bolted up to the engine - all it needs is + and - 12.5-13.5vdc. I bet you can find a local dyno shop that regularly dynos boat engines.
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Thanks,
Fred
Warming the globe, 24 cylinders at a time.
1988 US1 Cougar 46', Kevlar, 3 750hp 572s
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/waybomb/
1969 Glaspar Avalon
1964 17' Barron flatbottom
I'd rather be burning fuel at an alarming rate in Plain Vanilla!

Last edited by waybomb; 03-04-2010 at 08:17 PM..
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:42 PM
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Default Re: My latest boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybomb View Post
You gotta be right on with any marine engine making horsepower. What kind of bearing clearance you running? Here's what you should be at: Rod bearings = 0.0025-0.003 Mains = 0.0027-0.0035 end play = 0.004-0.009 Rod side play = 0.020-0.025 Wrist Pin = 0.001 Quench, including gasket - 0.040-0.060 Depending on pistons, for a marine engine, you should be at about 0.0015 for every inch of bore, measured at the skirt. I run only JE psitons, and JE has a very specific procedure for checking clearance, and has specific instructions for marine engines. Typically, a car engine has a bout 0.001 for every inch of bore. All this info is available on their website. Thin head gaskets - do you have the proper quench volume? What ignition do you have? Thunderbolt IV? For dyno run, just have all that bolted up to the engine - all it needs is + and - 12.5-13.5vdc. I bet you can find a local dyno shop that regularly dynos boat engines.
I was running .002 - .0025 on the rods. and .002 - .003 on the mains. The end play I don't remember nor do I remember what the side play on the rods was. I know that I had well over .010 on the side play. I'm running the Thunderbolt ignition. I'm not sure which one. It is the big black box that attaches to the exhaust manifold. The pistons I think are are Perfect Circle hyperuetectic. The Quench is .042 if I recall correctly. The deck height is .027 with the .015 head gasket gives it a .042 on the quench. The clearance I think was around .004 - .005 on the piston sidewall. I'm running a 160 degree thermostat with wide open thru the hull exhaust pipes. The motor sounded really wild with these pipes. I'm not sure my wife will like them. WOT was at 4400 RPM"s using a 13 pitch stainless Mirage prop. Just before Christmas I missed out on a complete ready to drop in 330HP 454 with 10 hours on it for $1500.00. The guy sold it within a few hours of listing it. I was all set to move up to a big block at that point in time.
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:49 PM
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Default Re: My latest boat

The bearings seem a bit tight, as does the bore. If you do replace the pistons, I would not use the hypereutectic for a boat engine. But 4400 seems low, but my perspective is scewed. I run my limiters at 6200. Cruising is in the 3500 range, and I generally don't take above 5500, though I have run her up to 6000 once or twice. What's the cam good for? Another good reason to run it on a dyno - you'll know where you can run the engine to and prop it for that. Are you running a Mellings "HV" oil pump? What kind of oil pressure did you see cold and when running? Are you running an oil cooler? Then you have to think about what the drive can handle. Sucks being towed back in.....
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Thanks,
Fred
Warming the globe, 24 cylinders at a time.
1988 US1 Cougar 46', Kevlar, 3 750hp 572s
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/waybomb/
1969 Glaspar Avalon
1964 17' Barron flatbottom
I'd rather be burning fuel at an alarming rate in Plain Vanilla!
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:44 PM
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Default Re: My latest boat

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Originally Posted by waybomb View Post
The bearings seem a bit tight, as does the bore. If you do replace the pistons, I would not use the hypereutectic for a boat engine. But 4400 seems low, but my perspective is scewed. I run my limiters at 6200. Cruising is in the 3500 range, and I generally don't take above 5500, though I have run her up to 6000 once or twice. What's the cam good for? Another good reason to run it on a dyno - you'll know where you can run the engine to and prop it for that. Are you running a Mellings "HV" oil pump? What kind of oil pressure did you see cold and when running? Are you running an oil cooler? Then you have to think about what the drive can handle. Sucks being towed back in.....
4400 - 4600 rpm's is WOT on this motor. I figured 4400 was a good start on a new motor. Cruising is around 3200 - 3500 rpm's. I used the Hypereutectics because they are much better than the standard cast pistons that were in the motor. I also got a great deal on the pistons, rings, bearings and Chevy X rods for $75.00. Everything was brand new except for the rods. The pistons were already installed on the rods. I think I had 55 - 60 psi on the oil gauge when off idle and at least 40 - 45 at an idle. I did replace the oil pump. I'm not sure which brand that I used. So far I have been very lucky over the years. I have never been towed back in. I do have insurance in case I do have to be towed.
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Old 03-06-2010, 09:28 AM
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Default Re: My latest boat

I've had to tow a few in. I've never been towed, though I do have Boat Insurance towing as well as BoatUS towing just in case it happens. But with two "spare" engines, chances are slim. I have had to run back on two engines a couple of times. Let us know how the rods check out. If the side play was good, the rods are probably straight. Sucks to have done all the work and then wipe a bearing. Keep digging until you find a measurable problem. Curious - how did you check clearance?
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Thanks,
Fred
Warming the globe, 24 cylinders at a time.
1988 US1 Cougar 46', Kevlar, 3 750hp 572s
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/waybomb/
1969 Glaspar Avalon
1964 17' Barron flatbottom
I'd rather be burning fuel at an alarming rate in Plain Vanilla!
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Old 03-06-2010, 10:51 AM
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Default Re: My latest boat

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Originally Posted by waybomb View Post
I've had to tow a few in. I've never been towed, though I do have Boat Insurance towing as well as BoatUS towing just in case it happens. But with two "spare" engines, chances are slim. I have had to run back on two engines a couple of times. Let us know how the rods check out. If the side play was good, the rods are probably straight. Sucks to have done all the work and then wipe a bearing. Keep digging until you find a measurable problem. Curious - how did you check clearance?
I used plastigage to check the bearing clearances. The bearings were dry bearings. It is a bit of work but well worth the time.
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: My latest boat

Here's a link to the tech section of Mahle. Just a refresher, but I go back and read this stuff once a year or so. http://www.mahleclevite.com/installationtips.asp

I don't use plastigage; I torque the cap with the bearing in it and measure in three places. And compare to the journal. My shop teacher taught me that in high school. (Lomg long time ago)


Still remember the, Kamarchuck was his name, and every one of us was a meathead! He drove a 68 or 69 Big Block Nova with black side pipes. I think my obsession is all his fault!
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Thanks,
Fred
Warming the globe, 24 cylinders at a time.
1988 US1 Cougar 46', Kevlar, 3 750hp 572s
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/waybomb/
1969 Glaspar Avalon
1964 17' Barron flatbottom
I'd rather be burning fuel at an alarming rate in Plain Vanilla!
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:42 PM
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Default Re: My latest boat

Very good info on that website. I bookmarked it for future referrence. It very well could be that my rod bearings were a bit on the tight side. I'll know more in a few weeks when I drop the pan and pull the rod caps off to inspect the bearings. I bet I could get away with polishing the crank and throwing another set of bearings in it. i also have two more stock size cranks for that motor. Both are marine cranks with low hours on them.
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Old 03-11-2010, 06:00 PM
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Default Re: My latest boat

I dropped the pan this afternoon to find that #7 has spun a bearing. It is just about completely wiped out. The crank is scored but salvageable. The other rod bearings are ok. The rod on #7 piston has been heated up. I will have to replace that rod. I guess what I probably will do is put the stock rods back in with the stock crank that came from my original motor. It had less than 100 hours on it. Now I just need to find the time to tear it all down once again.
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:50 PM
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Default Re: My latest boat

Too bad that happened. If you are using the same block, I'd take it completely apart, including all the oil passage plugs, dip the thing, and then hand clean every square mm of it, to make sure there's no metal hidden anywhere. How do the other bearings look?
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Thanks,
Fred
Warming the globe, 24 cylinders at a time.
1988 US1 Cougar 46', Kevlar, 3 750hp 572s
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/waybomb/
1969 Glaspar Avalon
1964 17' Barron flatbottom
I'd rather be burning fuel at an alarming rate in Plain Vanilla!
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:46 PM
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Default Re: My latest boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybomb View Post
Too bad that happened. If you are using the same block, I'd take it completely apart, including all the oil passage plugs, dip the thing, and then hand clean every square mm of it, to make sure there's no metal hidden anywhere. How do the other bearings look?

I dropped #7,#8 and #5 caps today. #8 was not looking very good. #5 looked fine. Thanks for the advice. I forgot about pulling the oil passage plugs to clean them out. That is where the little pieces will lay in hiding waiting to destroy my motor again.
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Old 03-12-2010, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: My latest boat

I have a question for you. Would a 454 hook right up with the outdrive? I'm running an Alpha One. I believe that the bellhousing is the same bolt pattern. I'm not sure about the flywheel.
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